Divorce Mistakes to Avoid: Expert Karen Covy's Tips

[Uncle Marv]
Hello friends, Uncle Marv here back with another episode of the unhealthy podcast the show where we talk about Health in a different way. It's not just about diet and exercise and all that good stuff We talk about a holistic approach to living healthy and being happy looking at the entire mind body and spirit and Today I am back with part two of my conversation with Karen Covy she is The person that went from being an attorney to a divorce coach and we had an interesting conversation It went a little long last time. So I asked her to come back and finish that Karen welcome back to the show Thank you for having me.

[Karen Covy]
I'm looking forward to our conversation.

[Uncle Marv]
I am too Hopefully you didn't have any darts that popped up that you want to ask me or good comment on Well, we'll see.

[Karen Covy]
We'll see as this goes on.

[Uncle Marv]
Okay So to give a quick recap if you're listening to this and you came here first you should probably go back and listen to part one and Hear how we got started. We talked about how Karen she is an attorney, but she's a recovering attorney is now primarily Helping coach people through the divorce process. She has a heart and happiness centered approach and We started talking about some of the misconceptions About when people should get divorced.

What's the best time and things of that nature? So let me ask you this question to kind of get us started here because when people hear the word divorce coach I'll be honest. I can't think of what came to mind when I first heard that because I'm like How do you coach somebody through a divorce?

But let me ask it in this way because when people hear that they probably have some sort of conception that You know, you're gonna make divorce easy. I Don't necessarily think that that's what that means. Is it?

[Karen Covy]
I would love it if it was But I don't care who you are or how you do it getting a divorce is never Right and anyone who tells you that it's going to be you want to run from that person Because they're not being honest with you, but I can make it more manageable I can help people do it with less conflict with less Ugliness with less expense with less damage to themselves and their children. Is it going to be easy? I would never say that but is it going to be a little bit easier or better long-term?

Yes

[Uncle Marv]
is this Considered a holistic approach to divorce I

[Karen Covy]
Consider it that I don't know how other people would think about it But that's sort of what I think because here's the thing about divorce that most people don't think about Because you know unless you're in the business and that is I mean divorce has a lot of moving parts It affects almost every area of your life your money your home your kids your social status your sometimes your job and it affects your identity everything about you and So it needs a holistic approach and the law for most divorces is about 10% The other 90% is all those other things and so People if you want to get through it better You need more than simply an attorney because they're gonna deal with that legal part But that's all they do and people assume that the rest of it goes along with it.

[Uncle Marv]
And that's not a good assumption That's one of the misconceptions people, you know that people have about divorce So all of the things that we see with people going through a bad situation Most of that has nothing to do with the legal aspect what you're saying, correct?

[Karen Covy]
Now sometimes it can't you can turn it into it gets it gets played out in a courtroom It gets played out in a legal system, but that doesn't mean that that's Number one the best place to do it or that the system is equipped to handle that For example, let's say, you know, you're fighting with I've had people fight over the craziest stuff right and let's say it's you know, you've got kids and I've seen people go to court to fight over Who takes the child for a haircut or this person took the child and got a haircut that the other? Parents don’t like and now they're in front of a judge Arguing about the kids haircut What do you think is the judges qualifications to make a decision about who should have gotten the child a haircut?

[Uncle Marv]
I mean to me that sounds like it's more a problem about who's in control Or who wants leverage which the law can't address, right?

[Karen Covy]
exactly, here's the problem with the divorce system in my humble opinion and that is that you're taking a family problem a Relationship problem and you're plunking it into a legal system that was never designed to handle it The legal system in our country is set up to be one side versus the other side That's how it works, right and the idea is the two sides I you know fight in court and bring out evidence so that you somehow get to The truth or a decision usually a decision is the best you can hope for But that's the way the legal system is. It was never designed to Deal with family problems like this So it does it badly now a part of a marriage is legal because you make a legal Contract you have to get a license to get married you get married, you know and the and the law recognizes you as a married couple so you can file taxes together and do things together as a Couple so you need to you need to deal with the legal part But that's not most of it for most people and some sometimes you get the wacky stuff and people will use Legal tactics and legal maneuvers to torture each other They do that all the time, but that doesn't mean that that's the way the system was designed to work

[Uncle Marv]
So as I've kind of I'm not gonna say studied divorce, but it's I kind of look at it Divorce really was meant to only deal with like the tangible stuff the assets and stuff And we've kind of tried to make it fit other areas. Is that fair?

[Karen Covy]
Yes, exactly. I mean it was the legal system isn't designed to deal with Kids particularly. Well, it does it because it has to like somehow Somewhere you've got to make these decisions about when do you see your kids?

And what are the rules around? Parenting and you know who makes decisions for your kids and all of those things need to get decided somewhere They're part of a divorce so it falls on the court system But it's so much better when the parents can stay out of the court system make those decisions as parents and then Bring to the court system their agreement which the judge will then Review make sure is fair and sign and they go on their way so that the legal part is an important part But it's better for human beings to deal with their problems outside of the court system And I would say that that applies not only in family law, but in every area of law You know, it costs a lot of money to go through the court system to resolve a dispute that's the only thing the court system was designed for how to resolve disputes between two people who can't work it out themselves and It's going to be more expensive.

No matter what context you do it in and it's also Probably not going to give either side The deal that they would like right it's some people are there you're gonna get a little of this but a little a little more Of this but a little less of that. So typically when a judge makes a decision There's often both sides are not totally happy with it But if you can stay outside of the court system and make your own deal, you can be more creative You can do more things than a judge would be able to do legally So it just is better for everyone especially in the family context

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah, that idea of compromise just doesn't seem to work out the way we think it does

[Karen Covy]
No, I mean often judges will do what we call splitting the baby. You know, so they make a decision and you've each got half of the kid. Nobody's happy with that, right?

[Uncle Marv]
interesting So you mentioned the fact that you know, our system wasn't meant to deal with these types of situations but a lot of times there seems to be Like we go into it with the wrong intent in terms of divorce and so we end up making mistakes What are in your mind some of the common mistakes that people are making while going through divorce?

[Karen Covy]
Well, what you just said is going into the system and believing that you are going to get something that is air quotes Fair or that there will be justice done because What do you think is fair? I guarantee you is going to be different than what your spouse thinks is fair and different than what the lawyers think is fair and Probably different than what the judge thinks is fair. So people think they're going to go into divorce court They're going to get a chance to tell their whole story to the judge who will sit patiently and hear it all and then Decide that what they think is fair is really what should happen that Rarely if ever happens first of all the court is run by rules So you don't get a chance to just sit on the witness stand and tell your story if you want to talk about You know how your sport your spouse did this or was bad or did that or you know?

Didn't do the dishes or left the laundry on the floor or whatever it like the judge is not going to hear that the court Rules don't allow it you have a limited time You can only you know You have to introduce evidence in certain ways you don't ever get to tell your story The judge doesn't care what your spouse did unless it's legally significant and what you think is significant is very different than what the law does so People go they think they want their day in court to be vindicated to get justice But that The system doesn't work that way It's not like the TV trials that you see that are exciting and dramatic and what a real trial I have to tell you it's a lot of Documents.

It's a lot of financial records. It's boring Most of the time you get the two minutes of drama that could be big drama But the rest of the day is kind of dull and it doesn't happen the way it happens on TV

[Uncle Marv]
So no attorney that is Turning the screws because he believes that it's you know, oh he was never home So we're gonna make him pay for that

[Karen Covy]
Yeah, here's the problem Every state in the Union has no fault divorce Which means it doesn't matter if your husband took the garbage out or your wife did the dishes like none of that ever Comes out it doesn't matter what they said or how many arguments you had or none of that matters. It's all backstory It's the stuff that never makes it into the movie Interesting.

[Uncle Marv]
All right, so you just said something I so growing I grew up in Florida and we always heard about Florida being a no-fault state and in most cases it was it was used in employment situations where Or not no fault at will Where you know you work at will your employer can fire you with or without reason and that marriages were the no-fault where You know, there's really, you know, it's 50-50 pretty much is what it is Are you just said every state it has a no-fault?

Rule, is that true? Is it a little nuanced there?

[Karen Covy]
It's nuanced Is how property is divided and There are two Ways property is divided depending on what state you're you live in most of the states have what they call equitable distribution Which means it's divided fairly whatever that means, which means that's why people fight about it because you know, what's fair? The other states which is the minority of states have community property Which is a straight 50-50 community to property is divided 50-50 Of course, you can still argue about is that community property or was that separate property? But I don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

So there's always There's always gray area. That's why lawyers make money That's different than no-fault divorce no-fault divorce means that it doesn't matter if you had an affair or if you didn't come home or if you Abandoned the house or you'd you know, you didn't take care of the kids or you whatever like none of that matters if You say to the court. We have irreconcilable differences.

That's the ground for divorce The other stuff doesn't affect Property division or Often doesn't affect it depends on the state whether it affects spousal support Because sometimes it and this just it's like throwing salt in a wound There are many states where your spouse could have an affair and that's what broke up the marriage But that spouse was the lower earning spouse So you still have to pay support even though you're getting a divorce that you didn't want with a person that you did That stings a lot.

[Uncle Marv]
It does Ouch Yes, I'll remember that if well divorce is not gonna come up in my goodness gracious So now let's do another pivot here because I think that what you were starting to talk about is in a lot of sense divorce Technically shouldn't have emotion in it When it comes to the legal side, but of course we bring Our emotion to that. I mean, it's how can you not so how do you help somebody balance the emotional?

[Karen Covy]
issues of divorce with the practical and legal parts of divorce. You deal with your emotions first emotions drive divorce So that's what makes it take longer that's what make it makes it cost more and that's what Drives up the conflict. So for example, I'll tell you a story. I had a case one time where it was contentious the wife didn't want a divorce the husband did and They fought and fought and fought and fought Ultimately, they came to a deal all the paperwork was done.

We're standing in front of the judge Wife wife's lawyer. I had the husband in this case the husband the husband's lawyer. We're proving up the case We're going over all the documents and the wife says I don't agree And the judge looks down the way.

Okay, you can't get to this point unless you agree. What happened? No, I changed my mind I don't agree.

What's the problem? It's the rocks Excuse me the landscaping rocks What landscaping rocks well, he's keeping the house and those landscaping rocks my father Paid for those landscaping rocks He can't keep those rocks and the judge at this point the judge looks down at both lawyers Both of the lawyers are like, huh? What dumbfounded and he's and the judge is like you go out in the hallway you figure it out, right?

so off we go with the two people and finally I get my husband my client was like so Angry and frustrated. He was like, you know what? I've given all I'm gonna give I'm like, what did the landscaping rocks cost $1,000?

I'm like just give her $1,000 Do you want to be divorced or not? Right to your point at that at that point? It's a business decision, right?

And he's like fine. I'll give her $1,000. I go to the other lawyer.

He'll give her $1,000. He talks to his client no; she wants those rocks I'm like what? Yeah, she wants to rip those rocks out of the landscaping and she wants those right now Mind you she was living in an apartment. I don't know what she was gonna do with the rocks but the but the point is it wasn't about the rocks and That's what you learn is that it was her emotions of we were standing in court.

This was it was that we didn't have kids She was they were gonna be done with each other and she didn't want to let go So ultimately, you know cooler heads prevailed and you know, she he gave her $1,000 He kept his rocks, you know, that was the end of that they got divorced But that's what I mean when I say emotions drive to what wasn't ever about the rocks It was the only thing you could think of right

[Uncle Marv]
all right, so you just Mentioned something in that story and don't be mad at me for picking this one thing out You said that you were in court with them Yes, so you? This isn't something where you just coach them and send them on their way you do you always go to court with them?

[Karen Covy]
Oh, no. No, this was from this was a story from when I was actively Okay Coach. I have gone to court with clients But I don't usually it just depends on What my role is and can't does my being in court serve a purpose, right? If a client needs me there for moral support and to keep you know To bolster them or give them confidence or what have you?

Then there's a point for me being there.

[Uncle Marv]
But most of the time There's not Okay All right, sorry about that I just Tweak to my head. I'm like interesting So let's now try to get this back on track and talk more about your coaching and let's get into some specifics I want to ask you about something that I saw called the divorce road map 3.0 Yes, so I'm gotta ask this.

[Karen Covy]
Was there a 1.0 and a 2.0 of course, I learned something from techies. Okay, you got to do it in order.

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah

[Karen Covy]
this is a program that started years ago in the 1.0 version and it is it's an education based program because divorce doesn't work the way you think it does and most people don't understand how it works and The genesis of the program what came from my time as a lawyer because like I said, I always believed in education so I would sit down to the client and I would start explaining how everything worked and after a while it was like Wah wah wah wah and they glazed over and I was like, yeah, none of this is going in And the thing about lawyers is we charge by the hour, right? So they would sit there and they would ask me questions. They would get answers a Couple days later.

They would get on the phone they would ask me the same question and get the same answer and pay for it a second time and a third time often because They can't you can't take it all in there was too much. There's just too much. So I said to myself What if I made videos and explained it in the videos that people had access to 24 7 365 that they could watch over and over and over again and so they didn't have to pay two and three times to get the same information and they could take it in chunks when they Were able to hear it and process it.

So that was the genesis of The program and it's based on the other thing I wanted to do because if you ask most divorce professionals How does this work and what's going to happen in what order and how do you do this? They're gonna say to you. Well, it depends on how you do it. It depends on you know Who your spouse is and what you want and blah blah blah blah blah and I'm like it can't be that complicated So I sat down and I thought about it and I created a framework There are ten steps that you are going to go through I don't care who you are where you are or how you do this You are either going to go through these ten steps in pretty much this order some of them the order might get flipped Or if you don't go through it Hopefully you made a conscious decision to skip that step because you didn't want to go through it And it's going to be in this way.

So by having a framework and seeing what's down the pike People can get prepared for it and that way they don't make dumb decisions because they didn't know what was coming They know what's coming. You can get prepared. You can make a plan and that makes more sense to me Anyway, it makes your experience of how you go through this a little bit less ugly and less painful So that's why I created the program.

It's been a success hundreds of people have gone through it at this point And so now it's in its 3.0 version.

[Uncle Marv]
All right, so Are they are there literally ten videos or plus or minus that number?

[Karen Covy]
No, there's a lot more videos Okay, here's the deal. I don't want to scare anybody but you don't want to sit and watch an hour of videos about divorce maybe you do but if I break the videos down into Chunks of maybe 10 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever it is based on subject You're going to be able to take it at your own pace and it's not so daunting right you don't have to say Oh, I was in the middle of this video. Was I at minute 37 or 42 right and we listen to stuff So it's broken down into chunks and it's actually divided into Modules, so it's organized.

So here's the video set near the module on kids. Here's the one on money Here's on how do you work with your lawyers so that you can keep your legal fees more manageable? here's what do you need to know after your divorce so that you can really make sure that you put it behind you and Create the life you want because the whole thing about divorce that people don't think about is you do not want your divorce If you have to go through one to be the defining moment of your life You know that there was everything before divorce and after divorce like Anno Domini No, you want the divorce to be a blip in the radar screen of your life It was ugly while you went through it and put it behind you and you moved on to live the life You really want right?

That's what it should be.

[Uncle Marv]
So that's what I help people do alright, and I'm gonna ask this because somebody out there is thinking it somebody doesn't watch some of the videos Comes to you ask a question. Do you ever? You know reply back Did you not watch this video?

[Karen Covy]
No, that would be um rude No, I don't do that. You know, we like the happy part, right? I want happy clients and so it depends I mean you can buy the roadmap program as a standalone on my website or Any one of my one-on-one coaching clients gets access to the whole program So they get a kind of is included in the package So if they have questions, of course, they can ask me anything they want They can go through every video in the program.

They can go through none of the videos in the program They're like, yeah, I don't want to do that. Fine I don't care if you just bought the program Usually if you're buying it as a standalone off the website if somebody's gonna ask me a question Yeah, you know and they email me if it's a reasonable question, you know, and it doesn't require 25 pages of email to answer then. Yeah, I'll just answer it But for the most part if you want the one-on-one answers, you need the one-on-one coaching It's just gonna be better for you and for everybody All right.

[Uncle Marv]
So Having said that so the video series they can do a standalone or as part of the program We mentioned last time your podcast called off the fence What was the impetus for that because there's a part of me that thinks well You can just send a lot of your people to your podcast and get some of that information as well, right?

[Karen Covy]
Yeah, you can't but there's no structure to it and my podcast I Want to bring more information to people more knowledge from and I don't know everything like lawyers like to think we know Everything but I really don't and so I interview smart people about all different kinds of aspects not just of divorce but of marriage of Relationships of decision-making so the podcast is much broader And you'll get you'll get a lot of information in the podcast But it's not structured the same way that the program the program is very focused you want to get from the beginning to the end in as few steps as possible as Reasonable a way as possible. So that's what the program is about.

[Uncle Marv]
All right, so I want to give it I Don't know if this is gonna be a tip a testimony or what but going way back episode 36 How to organize your financial life Now that doesn't necessarily have to be a show about divorce. That could just be a show about getting yourself in Gear financially in general Yes, exactly.

[Karen Covy]
I mean the whole point of this was to Just appeal to a broad range of people. It's about life It's about a whole list living a holistic life being happy being healthy being successful I just recorded a podcast It hasn't dropped yet But it's about being healthy and getting through menopause and how that affects relationships and divorce So that's why it's decision-making divorce and more. It's a little bit of everything Wow I'm sorry.

[Uncle Marv]
I just This is a way off base here, but I just I was at pod fest a couple of weeks ago a Conference for podcasters in Orlando, Florida and one of the people that I was having breakfast with on Sunday we were talking about doing some upcoming shows and I'm not gonna say her name because she'll But she's like, yeah, I want to come on and I want to talk about menopause on your show. Nobody ever talked about menopause And can you believe that in the last couple of weeks?

[Karen Covy]
I have heard the word menopause Being talked about either in a podcast or a you know on a podcast like almost every day since Maybe it's a sign But not me Okay, but here's the thing You're a married man You need to know about menopause because it's gonna happen your wife and then it if she's dealing with it It's gonna affect you so knowing about this stuff Isn't gonna hurt you.

[Uncle Marv]
Well, that's what we're focusing on. I'm gonna do a menopause tips for men show How to live through menopause and perimenopause and all the pauses and all the pauses oh My goodness gracious So Karen there was one other question. I was gonna ask you because there was a Another thing I saw that you can help people kind of tie up loose ends after a divorce Yes I'll be honest somebody like me Thick-headed and stuff or like what kind of loose ends?

Are there in a divorce?

[Karen Covy]
Well, divorce documents. Most people when the judge stamps their divorce judgment. They just want to be done and they don't ever want to see it again. They don't want to think about again, like let's move on right but the problem is divorce Documents are not self-executing and here's what I mean. So the divorce says you're gonna divide the Checking account each of you gets half and then you're but then what are you gonna do with it? Does one of you keep the checking account does do you close it down and you each get your own?

How does that happen? The bank doesn't automatically, you know, the judge doesn't send the paperwork to the bank the bank goes Okay, we're closed you get a happy you get a half and we could know you have to go do that Most people know enough to close their bank accounts, but it's about you know You know credit cards making sure if you might not think about it because maybe it was your spouse's credit card Well, that could still potentially in the future affect your credit score if your spouse stops making payments So you want to make sure that all of that is separated? You want to make sure that everything that it was that was said in the divorce? Paperwork actually happens and you would be amazed at the number of times It doesn't because people don't want to deal with it and they don't follow through for example Let's say you know a percentage of your retirement account is going to get transferred to your spouse again That doesn't just happen You got to do the paperwork and you've got to send it to the retirement plan company and you've got to make sure Everything happens and if you don't do that, I don't care what the divorce paperwork said It doesn't you know, you're never gonna get the money So it's about tying up those loose ends and then thinking beyond to your life beyond okay Did you change the life insurance beneficiary? Because if you know, do you really want that if you get hit by a bus god forbid?

Walking out of the courthouse after your divorce your spouse gets all of your life insurance. Did you make that change? Did you change your will did you think about and for parents?

This is important too is to think okay if something happens to me what happens to the kids? How are they? How are they taking care of financially?

How are they taking care of physically who's going to be their guardian and it might be their spouse, but you know Who's the next person in line? So there are a lot of things to think about and a lot of loose ends to tie up That you might not think about or want to deal with but you need to deal with them because the longer you wait to deal with them a The more time you give bad things to happen and be it's like a monkey in your back You know, you gotta do it. You gotta do it, you know You don't want to do it and you know, and it just becomes bigger and bigger and bigger just do the things, right?

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah, I just was thinking in my head all those possibilities of whatever Existed before the divorce It doesn't just disappear, you know The debt that you talked about and even if you take your name off the credit cards, there's still a history Before the divorce that will follow you for a little bit right because you just can't erase You know all those previous years of credit history together

[Karen Covy]
Right. So you want it's just about Making sure that everything is that was supposed to happen that you thought was going to happen Actually happens and then after all those loose ends are tied up Then you can put your divorce behind you and start focusing on the next chapter Which is how do what do I want to create? What kind of life do I want to live and that's a question that when you're on the front end of a divorce You can't even think about it like you're too flooded with emotion you're too over you can't eat you're you can't get there but if you do a divorce in a healthy way, I Would argue that at some point as you're going through the process you're starting to deal with your emotions They're going down you're focusing on other things and thinking about how do I want to live my life? What do I want to create? Will give you the best chance of ending your divorce in a place where you're ready to do that versus leaving all of the hurt and the anger and the upset and the emotion and letting it stew in the divorce and letting the litigation and the court system You know keep jacking that up and then at the end of your divorce You're just a total mess and you're like, okay now what I don't know now I've got to start doing the work that if you had been doing it all along

[Uncle Marv]
You would have had a much easier transition very interesting Aaron you've given me a lot to think about Probably more the fact that I don't ever want to think about divorce and

[Karen Covy]
That's a good thing. I mean, I know it sounds strange But I am the most happily married divorce lawyer. I know I love my husband.

He's Amazing. I believe wholeheartedly in marriage for love, which is why I also believe in divorce when you got to do it marriage for love is that the title of your book No, the title of the book is when happily ever after ends how to survive your divorce emotionally financially and legally. Is that really is that your book? Yeah, that's my book.

[Uncle Marv]
Why didn't I see that? Let me find that's on the Amazon, of course All right, let me grab that and promote that for you What was it called again when happily ever after ends happily ever after Okay, other people have written books shatters fails Right, there it is By Karen Covy All right paperback and Kindle beautiful. So I'm gonna have the link for that in the show notes folks.

You can look at that of course, I've got other questions fully my mind and Do you ever have people? Ask you have you been through a divorce and does that help you help us?

[Karen Covy]
I Have had people ask me that and You know for a long time that sort of got in my way. That was my own Story in my head and then I realized that if you've got cancer and you have a tumor Do you go to the doctor and say? Have you ever had cancer before you know operate on me?

I need to know if you've been through this right? No, you say are have you ever done this with other people before are you a qualified surgeon, right? it doesn't matter if they've done it before and so I kind of bring both sides to this because I Know what a good marriage looks like.

The other question people do ask me is it even possible to be happily married? Is that even a thing and I can look at them? 100% sure and say yeah, it is I can tell you that because I've done it And what I have I've never done.

I've never been through a divorce, but I've helped hundreds probably at this point Thousands of people do it and do it in a better way All right, is the rock story the craziest thing you've ever had to deal with That was pretty crazy, but yeah, there's a lot of stories Oh Divorce lawyers have really good stories. I got to tell you.

[Uncle Marv]
I'm sure okay. Have I asked you good questions?

[Karen Covy]
You have asked me amazing questions

[Uncle Marv]
Thank you, thank you for answering My pleasure, all right Anything you want to ask me

[Karen Covy]
Hmm you gonna go home and kiss your wife and tell her how happy you are to be married to her now

[Uncle Marv]
That's part of our agreement

[Karen Covy]
You know, that's like my husband always says to me He is so happy that I do what I do because he looks so good at the end of the day so Yeah, it's appreciate what you got

[Uncle Marv]
Absolutely

[Karen Covy]
Appreciate it and make sure your spouse knows Like don't take it for granted

[Uncle Marv]
yeah, well, she does need to hear that a lot because I work a lot and She doesn't so I have to remind her. Yeah, I'm still here.

[Karen Covy]
You're still important And that's important and I hope you never ever ever need me I May need you for another show, but I will never need you for this We can work on that.

[Uncle Marv]
All right So KarenCovy.com and Covy is spelled without the e so Covy. On that site you can find all of her Information as well as the podcast that we mentioned off the fence with Karen Covy and Now I've got to make sure I get a link to the book when happily ever after ends how to survive your divorce emotionally financially and Legally Wow It's a mouthful. I'm sorry.

I just was clicking on your site It's like don't want to make mistakes in your divorce. You need the dream team So All right, well Karen, thank you very much for doing this and thank you again for agreeing to come back and do a part two and

[Karen Covy]
So much for having me so

[Uncle Marv]
well, I just did not want to leave out any of the information and the stories are great and I tried my best not to ask you about them, but I appreciate it and That's gonna do it folks, so If you're even thinking about it or you've you know somebody going through it and they need a little help just to get started Send them to Karen Covy comm and she can help them navigate The road of divorce in a much healthier hopefully less financial manner, so I'll be great Karen we'll see you soon.

I Out there listening. Thank you for downloading and subscribing to the show. Check us out over at unhealthy podcast.com and Follow the advice that we gave on this show and every show and try to live your health Live your life in a more healthy and happier way. We'll see you soon Allah